Jon Talbain vs Sabrewulf
The FORBIDDEN Death Battle Prediction Blog Episode 23
Prediction 9
Jon Talbain vs Sabrewulf
“The way you walked was thorny though no fault of your own, but as the rain enters the soil, the river enters the sea, so tears run to a predestined end.”
—The Wolfman, 1941
Ah, werewolves. They’re an excellent idea that has a lot of stigma attached to it because of a certain infamous group on the internet. Man-beasts. Human intellect and sensitivity forced to cohabitate with primal instincts inside a single soul. Id vs ego without a super-ego in sight to facilitate peace.
Werewolves would be the coolest monsters if mummies didn’t exist. But it’s still close.
Here’s a Halloween treat for you: if you ever want to read one of the best, if not the best, werewolf stories read Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans: Latitude 38° 54′ N, Longitude 77° 00′ 13″ W by Harlan Ellison.
Weird title, isn’t it? Trust me, it’s good.
Who Are These Characters? What is the theme here?
The theme is werewolves from fighting games. Sabrewulf is from MK clone Killer Instinct, though classic KI had much better gameplay than classic MK. He’s a German aristocrat named Konrad von Sabrewulf who got afflicted with lycanthropy by cutting himself on a werewolf’s severed claw in his family’s creepy alchemy lab. He desperately seeks a cure throughout the KI series be it through shady megacorp Ultratech or alchemical experimentation. KI was a dead series but recently had a successful revival where a Battle Toad was a guest fighter.
Jon Talbain is from Street Fighter clone and possibly the most bizarre fighting game of all time Darkstalkers. Darkstalkers is what happens when you take the Universal horror monster mash cast and then slather on the anime bullshit thick. We likely won’t ever see a new Darkstalkers (the last was in 1997 not counting a compilation rerelease in 2013). The big hook for the series is being a fighting game with Dracula and friends, but the series instead focuses on the non-Universal creations of lonely old Japanese salarymen. That’s why the catgirl and succubus show up in MvC and not the vampire and werewolf. Darkstarlkers is one of those games you feel dirty for playing.
Sorry Boco, but it’s the truth.
Jon, like Sabrewulf, is your standard Larry Talbot clone, Jon has had much better luck controlling his wolf side. He was trained in kung-fu by a werewolf master and the training helped him control his instincts. Then he defeated Dark Talbain, a shadowy clone of himself in one of those “fight your own darkside” matches. Think Shadow Link in Zelda II and Mad Jack from Samurai Jack. He’s also got a pedigree with his father being the king of the werewolves. Yep, it’s the papered Talbain vs the mut Sabrewulf. The alpha-of-alphas Talbain vs druggie Sabrewulf.
Remarks On The Preview Videos
There was a Darkstalkers manga?
Damn. I knew about the OVA, the UDON comics, and even the cartoon but the manga completely slipped my radar.
I guess you learn something new everyday.
First, credit where credit is due. Thank you Death Battle for changing the fight date and finally giving us a thematic Halloween fight.
It doesn’t make up for trick-or-treating being deader than a zombie this year, but I appreciate the thought.
Now, I have some complaints about the previews.
The biggest complaint is that Talbain doesn’t do karate, he does kung-fu. And I’m not sure how they made this mistake. This isn’t like hidden lore. He’s Bruce Lee as a werewolf. He even does Bruce Lee’s finger wag and takes out nunchucks as an attack. He does big wuxia flip kicks. In the UDON comics, he trades a few blows with Chun-Li and she calls the style he’s using a form of kung-fu.
He does kung-fu.
What Death Battle did was look at a guy doing boxing and called it muay tai. It’s embarrassing.
Hey Death Battle, you know what Bruce Lee thought about Japanese martial arts? He made a whole movie about it called Fist of Fury, I think you should watch it.
Fist of Fury is the reason why Fei Long is Makoto’s rival match in SFIV. A lot of people don’t know that.
What really grinds my gears is the methodology they used to determine that Talbain uses karate. “Well, judging by the surroundings and this block move his master does in one panel, it’s probably shotokan karate he’s learning.”
The fuck? Like you can only learn kung-fu if a Shaolin monastery or Chinese restaurant is nearby! The block “evidence” is even sadder. “Look! He’s got his arm up! No other martial art has you put your arm up to block attacks!”
Putting your arm up is a carefully guarded secret of karate. You see, before Japan adopted and codified certain practices from Okinawa to create modern karate, blocking attacks with your face was the universally accepted counter.
Death Battle also made the biggest white belt mistake when it comes to werewolf lore in the Sabrewulf video:
“The fable of men turning to wolves under the full moon is a staple of European folklore.”
No. No. No.
No.
In folklore, the closest you get to the full moon transforming a werewolf from man to wolf/wolf-man would be stories about how if you die in sin and your body is placed at a crossroads and the full moon shines on your face you turn into a wolf. But that deals with becoming a werewolf, not how the transformation cycle works once you are a werewolf.
The development of the transformation cycle rules in pop culture goes like this:
Werewolf of London (1935): Any moon light, even from an artificial source, produces the change.
The Mummy’s Hand (1940): The first time a monster’s transformation is associated with the cycle of the full moon. To keep the mummy Kharis’ heart beating down through eternity, the high priest of Karnak boils three tana leaves during the cycle of the full moon and administers the fluid to Kharis. If the high priest ever has need of an invincible killing machine, and wouldn’t you know it, he does in the movie, he boils nine instead.
The Wolf Man (1941): Per the poem featured in the film:
“Even a man who is pure in heart
and says his prayers by night
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms
and the autumn moon is bright.”
Two qualifiers here: wolfsbane is blooming and it’s a bright autumn moon. Note that there’s nothing here about a full moon.
Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man (1943): In this sequel to The Wolf Man, the poem gets retconned (in many ways, the Universal monster films were the first superhero comic universe):
“Even a man who is pure in heart
and says his prayers by night
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms
and the moon is full and bright.”
1943 is the year the full moon became part of the transformation cycle and it’s been a staple of pop culture ever since. The retcon was likely made as Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man is about Larry Talbot and the kind gypsy woman Maleva traveling around Europe looking for something that’ll allow Larry to kill himself. If Larry’s had to change every night in Autumn, it’s unlikely Maleva would have lasted long as his travel companion.
Who wrote this episode?
Whoever it was, Death Battle needs to pair them with an editor.
On Control Vs Rage And Why It Starts The Comparison Between Talbain And Sabrewulf
If everything was equal between Talbain and Sabrewulf, the win would easily go to Talbain. Talbain actually knows what he’s doing in a fight while Sabrewulf runs on instinct and impulse. Talbain is what Sabrewulf wishes he was. He took the bestial urges of his werewolf nature and through discipline and meditation not only tamed them but harnessed them to become a combat machine. Sabrewulf…never did. Poor guy. He just did a lot of drugs to sort of mitigate the pain of his tortured existence.
“The calm water surrounds the raging stream.”
Toki from Fist of the North Star said that, and who are you to doubt kung fu Jesus?
To close the evident skill gap, Sabrewulf is going to need a huge physical advantage.
Does he have that?
Well, Does He?
Well…no actually. Talbain actually has the better stats.
Ouch.
Okay, look. It’s often hard to calculate how strong fighting game characters are because of how the genre works. I can turn on Third Strike and have Makoto slaughter everyone, but in the canon of the game Makoto is pretty far from the top of the power level pyramid. She should be near the top of the pyramid, but that’s just my favoritism talking.
For a genre based on having the characters fight each other, you don’t typically see characters having a lot of canon wins and loses. This made looking Goro back in Goro vs Machamp hell for the research team and why his power feat was “Kotal Khan blew up a ship once” and his speed feat was “Kabal can run fast.”
Sabrewulf and Jon have the same problem Goro had. They just don’t have a lot in terms of concrete feats. That means to get a measure of what they can do I’m going to have to be thorough. Fortunately, Killer Instinct and Darkstalkers are both pretty limited in their story so there wasn’t a lot of homework.
Let’s look at the history of each werewolf.
Sabrewulf’s History
Killer Instinct (1994)
–Entered Ultratech’s fighting tournament in the hopes that they could use their sketchy cyberpunk technology to cure his lycanthropy.
–Lost the tournament, but we don’t know to who. The instruction manual says that he was hampered by his reluctance to unleash the beast within. Given that Orchid is the only other character from KI who’s opponent during the first tournament is unknown, it’s likely Orchid beat him. But then again, one of his endings from KI 2 mentions that Glacius was his mortal enemy so he might have been the one to beat him.
–Makes really pathetic kicked dog sounds when hit. Poor guy.
–Can shoot a flaming bat projectile. Hey, it was a 90’s MK clone. Almost everyone had a projectile of some kind even if it didn’t make sense.
–Various slashing moves. Leaping slash. Rolling slash. Backhand slash. Slash, slash, slash!
–Has a howl that is really annoying to listen to that powers him up. KI has a mechanic called shadow moves where if you have a flashing lifebar your special moves power up and your character gets a silver shadow when they use them. Sabrewulf’s howl makes his lifebar flash at the cost of being a move that doesn’t do anything but make him howl.
Killer Instinct 2/Killer Instinct Gold (1996)
–On his way home from the first KI tournament, he’s captured and beaten by, in the words of the wiki, “an ignorant, sadistic country lynch mob.” Ouch. To think Ultratech called him “one of the deadliest creatures on the planet.” I think some analyst lost his or her job. If Bubba and Cletus can kick your ass you are not one of the deadliest creatures on the planet.
Come on Sabre. You’re a werewolf. Unless someone packed silver they shouldn’t be able to hurt you. What did they do, run you over with the General Lee? Blare Lynyrd Skynyrd until your ears bled? I haven’t seen a werewolf job this hard since Wolfsbane got beaten to death by frat boys.
–Barely alive after his humiliating loss to the rednecks from Deliverance, Ultratech abducts him and replaces his arms with robot arms.
–Despite his new robot arms, his moveset is pretty much the same as it was in KI 1.
–Given his endings and the endings of the other characters, he may have defeated Glacius, or Glacius may have defeated him. He might also have lost to Orchid.
–It turns out that Glacius’ race is hidden in the well of Sabrewulf’s castle?!?!?
I don’t get it either.
Killer Instinct (1996 Acclaim comic)
–Is…this canon? I guess it doesn’t matter since panels from the comic showed up in the preview video.
–Lost to Jago when Jago decided to stop holding back. He did give Jago a pretty good fight before getting demolished, however.
–Suffered a humiliating loss to Glacius who floored him in one punch as soon as the fight started.
–Gutted a Riptor clone. Hey look, he actually won a fight!
–Tore through one of those big metal doors evil laboratories always have to get a serum he hoped would cure him of his lycanthropy.
–Instead, the serum painfully transformed him into a flesh blob. He got better off-panel with no explanation how he recovered from going full Tetsuo.
–He exists just to suffer.
Killer Instinct (2013)
–Sabrewulf rips out his robot arms (eat your heart out TJ Combo) and grows himself new arms with alchemy. Depressed (understandably) by all he’s been through, he does a lot of opiates and weird alchemical compounds to numb the pain of his miserable existence.
–Here’s a video showing what 2013 Sabrewulf can do.
It’s by True Underdawg Gaming. How appropriate!
–Sabrewulf no longer has his weird bat-shaped fireball or his power-up howl. But he’s gained an instinct mode that increases the damage of his attacks and makes them do chip damage (a small amount of damage that goes through a block) and a powerful anti-air move called eclipse where he swings his claw overhead and creates a bright energy trail.
–According to the game’s arcade mode, he may have defeated Fulgore and Thunder.
–Characters are given one of three threat level ratings in arcade mode–High, Extreme, or Unknown. Sabrewulf is rated as High which puts him on the level of Thunder and Sadira and below the level of Jago, Fulgore, and Glacius.
–According to the game’s rivals mode (an improved arcade mode for season 2 characters), he may have been defeated by Riptor, Maya, and Hisako.
–According to the game’s shadow lords mode (the season three better-than-arcade-mode arcade mode), he may have defeated a mimic clone of Maya.
Talbain
Darkstalkers (1994)
–Not-Galactus comes to Earth and gets beat up by not-Dracula and Boco’s waifu. Talbain doesn’t really have much to do with the main plot.
–Talbain’s moves include:
Beast cannon: Talbain does a shoulder charge in one of eight directions while surrounded by an energy aura. It works kind of like a better version of Cammy’s cannon spike. Talbain can chain two beast cannons together or burn meter to chain several of them together. Beast cannon is Talbain’s main move and is very versatile. He can use it to quickly attack and then dash backwards to avoid a counterattack. He can use it to feint. He can use it either close distance or create distance. You might not think a shoulder charge would be the main move of a kung-fu master, but it’s the thinking man’s technique when you really think about how it works.
Climb laser: It’s your typical shoryuken/flash kick anti-air move, a big kung-fu kick that leaves a trail of energy. It has nothing to do with climbing or lasers.
Darkstalkers’ Revenge (1995)
–The story is the same as the last one. It’s one of those annoying Capcom games that’s literally just the last game but with more characters and gameplay tweaks. It’s Darkstalkers: Championship Edition.
–Talbain gets new moves:
Million Flicker: Talbain takes out a pair of nunchucks out of nowhere and flings them around. It’s obviously not a million blows at once, but given the research track record from the preview videos we might actually see them claim Talbain can do a million strikes in an instant. Brace yourself.
Dragon cannon: A supermove where Talbain focuses his chi and summons a bunch of chi dragons to attack his opponent.
Mirage body: Another supermove. Talbain creates a shadowy double that follows him and copies his moves for a limited time.
Darkstalkers (1995 cartoon)
No. Having to watch the OVA and read the comic was painful enough.
Darkstalkers III (1997)
–A demon named Jedah summons strong souls to his pocket dimension to power-up a big fetus demon that he wants to use to destroy and remake the demon world. Talbain is again inconsequential to the plot, even though it’s revealed that Jedah killed his parents. In canon, it’s not clear they actually fight.
–Talbain gets a new move: Moment slice, a supermove where he quickly slices his opponent with his claw. It’s kind of lame for a supermove.
Darkstalkers’ Revenge (1997 OVA)
–Is this canon? Who knows. There were clips of it in the preview video so its probably going to be used.
–Chased by three hunters with rifles, Talbain does dragon cannon which knocks down a brick wall and immolates the hunters in a fire tornado.
–Rescues Felicia from a squad of huitzil and then demolishes several of them with beast cannons.
Huitzil are not-Galactus’ robot servants who he seeded on Earth aeons ago. They activate when Earth’s power levels are high enough to test its inhabitants to see if they’re worth not-Galactus’ time to fight personally. They’re pretty durable, and in the OVA we see them walk unharmed through an artillery barrage. That means Talbain’s beast cannon hits harder than an artillery gun.
–Speaking of artillery guns, Felicia is treated as way below Talbain power wise in the OVA, so it’s reasonable to scale Talbain’s durability beyond hers. In the OVA, she’s operating a train. An artillery gun on the same track opens fire on her. She’s at the very front of the train and takes the blast full-on. The train gets wrecked and she’s tossed some distance and knocked out, but is otherwise unharmed.
–Oh yeah. Talbain has artillery level strikes and artillery level durability.
Darkstalkers (Udon comics)
–Talbain lost a fight to Felecia, but there were massive caveats involved. He was wounded by hunters, and it was a full moon which made his beast impulses stronger and he was struggling to suppress them. He was off his game.
–Traded blows with Chun-Li (the Street Fighter crossover is a direct continuation of the Darkstalkers comic).
So Who Wins?
Talbain, if that wasn’t clear enough already.
How do they compare in terms of nadir? Talbain got his butt kicked by Felecia after being wounded and while struggling to control himself. That’s humiliating, but not as humiliating as being beaten nearly to death by good ol’ boys.
How do they compare in terms of zenith? Talbain is strong enough to destroy squads of shapeshifting civilization-destroying robots created by not-Galactus. All it takes from him is a kick or an elbow check. Sabrewulf is maybe strong enough to defeat a Fulgore. Maybe.
Talbain, as discussed in the intro, also has a huge skill advantage
As if that wasn’t already enough, Talbain has the experience advantage as well. Take it from a guy that did a lot of fencing in high school. Do you know why half of high-level fencers are left handed? It’s because left-handed fencers fence a lot of right-handed fencers while right-handed fencers don’t fence a lot of left-handed fencers. Sabrewulf has never fought his own kind before. Jon has. Jon’s kung-fu master was another werewolf and he defeated his dark side clone. Even if this wasn’t an actual, tangible clone and was one of those battles inside the mind, that means Talbain understood enough about how werewolves fight to conceptualize himself fighting himself. That’s some serious zen.
RIP Sabrewulf. His suffering is at an end.
Will this be the first death battle to end in a mercy kill?
Come on Death Battle. Have Jon say the Wolf Man quote at the end. Give this battle some poignancy and pay tribute to the movie that inspired both fighters.
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